Skepticalscience – Rewriting History

“…resist the temptation to reply to [trolls].
Instead, do what the troll hates most — simply remove the comment.”

John Cook

The recent censorship episode at the skepticalscience.com brings an often overlooked aspect to the forefront. The target of deletion Prof Roger Pielke Sr, runs a blog. The actions of Skepticalscience were revealed because he posted them there.

What if a scientist or a lay person, interacted with websites like Skepticalscience and did not have a blog?

Consider what Skepticalscience did in reader Paul and AnthonySG1′s cases. In 2007, the website had an article explaining Antarctica’s cooling —a thorn in the pitch for a clean story about global warming— as an “uniquely” regional phenomenon. It talked of how ‘Antarctica was overall losing ice’, citing a peer-reviewed paper Velicogna et al 2003 for support.

The response in the comments section from Cook’s readers was simple: ‘Antarctic ice is increasing. You cannot take a paper that has three years worth of data and conclude that the continent was losing ice’. They cited references that Skepticalscience neglected – which showed an overall increase in Antarctic sea ice.

The rewriting that John Cook undertook is now recounted at Bishop Hill. In the first step Cook changed the entire article, taking off from the criticisms. Next, he deleted his original ‘responses’, and added new ones that made it appear as though these commenters did not know what they were talking about.

The rewriting of Skepticalscience history

After this was openly revealed, John Cook offered explanations for his actions. It went something like this: ‘I accidentally mistook my readers to have responded to my updated article. Thinking that was indeed the case, their comments sounded silly to me. So I ended up adding responses to guide new readers’

A closer examination of the threads on Skepticalscience, reveals a different picture. Let us begin by examining a few examples to get a sense of what these might be.

Let us start with the thread “Climate models are unreliable”. As is known, the website portrays skeptical arguments as such simple statements and offers rebuttals. The article was published sometime late 2007.

In July 2008, ’poptech’ left a comment which questioned assertions made in the article. He quoted scientists at the Realclimate consensus blog:

Comment from reader 'poptech' - deleted in 2011

From mid-2008, Poptech’s comment remained intact on the thread till as recently as Feb 2011 . At some point afterward, the comment was deleted. Another of poptech’s comments upthread, to which three commenters responded (example) was deleted, leaving the responses hanging mid-air.

Consider the thread “Solar activity & climate: is the sun causing global warming?” In Sept 2007 reader Ben Lankamp left a comment supporting Cook’s assertions on the thread. It contained a graph of total solar irradiance. The comment remained intact for close to three years till Aug 2010.

Inexplicably, at some point afterward the comment was deleted. The next snapshot shows the article with Lankamp’s comment missing and changed graphs.

Was Cook deleting comments that didn’t play well with his changes? It is hard to say. Even innocuous ones seem to get the boot. For instance, observe once again Antarctic ice thread of 2007.  Reader ‘irkantska’s comment from Aug 2009 is still there in Sept 2009:

Look at the Jan 2010 entry next. The comment is gone. By this time, Cook has rearranged the conversation and added admonishing responses to readers who had provided links. He did not have any replies for irkantska. The comment was simply bumped off.

Is Cook merely deleting comments from his readers alone? Let us look at the Hurricane Katrina weblog entry titled ‘Did Global Warming cause Hurricane Katrina’. The changes made by Cook start getting complex.

Cook’s article on Hurricane Katrina came out in 2007. It claimed that global warming caused an increase in hurricane intensity. By November 2007 reader ‘Wondering Aloud’ (WA) had offered his comment,

WA, as can be seen, joked about the article’s title and said that climate science theory predicted a decrease of hurricane frequency and intensity with global warming. Cook asked if WA ‘knew of any papers’ that showed this.

WA offered a citation in the next post.

‘Wondering Aloud’ noted the irony of Kerry Emmanuel himself being the prime proponent of a theory of increasing intensity of hurricanes, when he was a co-author of the very Free et al 2004 that predicted no change in intensity.

You can look at the thread today. Comments 2 and 4 are gone. Comment 3 has been left behind and its content doesn’t make any sense (it was a response to Cook’s comment in 2). And presumably since comment 4 was deleted comments 5, 6, 7, and 8 by readers responding to WA’s point in #4, have all been deleted. They were present until Sept 2009. They were gone by Dec 2009.

If a reader stumbles on the Katrina thread at Skepticalscience today, he or she would not know any of the above. Instead, what one sees is a comment, with a response from Cook. The changes make it look as though ‘the science’ changed from 2004 to 2005 which Cook is helpfully pointing out.

The whole conversation has been turned on its head.

What’s more, Cook has gotten rid of his own comments in the process. In 2007, a more thoughtful Cook began his response to WA:  “Statements such as “Katrina was caused by GW or GW causes more hurricanes” are on shaky ground”.

These remarks are wiped clean from the historical record.

In a recent letter to a local newspaper editor, global warming professor Michael Mann guided its readers in Colorado to skepticalscience.com as an authentic source of information. He asserted that the true story about his hockey-stick graph was told there. Let us examine what skepticalscience.com did with their hockey-stick threads.

One of Cook’s earliest pages on the hockey stick came out sometime late-2007. There were hardly any reader responses, and by November 2009 the thread had accumulated a grand total of eleven comments. In Nov 2007 commenter ‘nomann’ had disagreed with Cook’s contentions, with Cook’s response following close behind. Commenter ‘Will Nitschke’ posted a series of comments pointing out aspects of the hockey-stick issue that were left out, and again Cook responded. Then notably, ‘saluki’ left a comment that drew attention to researcher Linah Ababneh’s dissertation, the proxy weightings used by Mann, and the problem with the stripbark phenomenon that affected Mann’s work. In early 2009, reader ‘sjkhayes’ posted a numbered summary of the issues with Mann’s work and inquired if there were any proxy reconstructions that were free from these problems.

In Jan 2010, all these comments were gone.

The page changed as well. McIntyre and McKitrick’s graph of a corrected-hockey stick, which Cook had used from a Michael Crichton page, was gone.

A fresh round of commenting began on the same thread.

By May 2010, in line was commenter poptech again, who posted a list of papers and reports which refuted, in part or in whole, the Mannian hockey-stick.

John Cook was obliging. He posted a response:

Poptech’s comment survived on the page till as recently as May 2011. On the current version of the page, it is gone. Again, the responses to poptech were left hanging in the air.

So, the problem is not confined to just a handful of comments, here and there. Whole batches of them are deleted at times. Is a strange computer glitch wiping out comments in bulk on the skepticalscience.com server?

Let us look at another topic on Skepticalscience that relates to Michael Mann’s paleoclimate work – the Medieval Warm Period.

The page came out sometime before October 2007 and this is how it looked in Sept 2009. Compare that with the current version which is here.

Cook has deleted virtually dozens and dozens of comments on this thread. None of them appear to be abusive, or offensive, or ‘ad-hominem’. The changes are simply too many to be adequately documented with screen captures. The comments are from late 2007 – early 2008 and the deletions occur somewhere between Sept 2009 and Dec 2009.

Take the exchange between ‘Adamski’ and ‘chris’ (comments 36, 37, 38, 39 originally):

Comments from 'Adamski' and 'chris' as they appeared in Sept 2009

Nov 2009 - the Adamski-chris conversation moves up due to bulk deletions! Comment #37 from chris goes missing

Feb 2010 - Comment #37 makes a comeback but chris has lost his name.

Sept 2011 - the comments as they are, in their final position

What is more: as can be seen from the screen captures above, Cook goes into the comments and deletes commenters’ references to each others’ posts. This is no computer glitch and it demonstrates he knew what he was doing.  Nor does this square with the explanations Cook provided at Bishop Hill. . Again, as before, parts of a conversation are deleted and altered in such a way, the end result looks like something that never happened.

Let us look at yet another page that relates to Michael Mann’s paleoclimate work – the ‘trick’ to ‘hide the decline’.

Scientist Phil Jones’ email about his using ‘Mike’s Nature trick’ in order to ‘hide the decline’ is famous. However, even the ‘trick it seemed could be defended by skepticalscience. Their initial page, published sometime before Mar 2010 was customarily simple and suggested that the whole thing was a non issue.

By Dec 2010, author James Wight had extensively updated the page. This is how he explained Jones’ actions:

Reader ‘JeanS’ now added the first comment, referring to the key claim in the last sentence:

John James Wight clearly understood his reader’s critique because he took its message to heart.

The main article was rewritten deleting all previous references to what exactly the “trick” was. Instead of the claim that the hiding involved the truncating of ‘unreliable’ tree ring data – which was the basis for claiming that no malfeasance occured, one now sees simply a proclamation from the Muir-Russell review to the same effect. The highlighted claim is missing from all three versions of the article.

Just as in instances before, JeanS’ comment has left hanging in the air referring to a statement that doesn’t exist.

Why does John Cook do this?

The deletions carried out by Cook don’t make sense as an exercise in moderation. They seem driven by an ardent need to present a clean and neat view of global warming. Of a need to reassure that no intelligent discussions exist, and all possible questions have (long) been answered.

The structure of Cook’s website appears to push things in his direction. In the beginning, pages are born as undemanding and easy arguments. Cook then seems to realize that the skeptical arguments are more involved and complex than the simplistic picture he presents. He updates the same pages with more detail. But messy comments have accumulated below the line, sticking out like sore thumbs. The ‘broad picture’ that Cook so wants to convey is sullied.

In the meantime fresh readers, oblivious to the confusing mish-mash of claim and counter-claim, arrive in greater numbers on the shores of the global warming debate. Journalists, policy-makers and other influential opinion-makers land up everyday at skepticalscience, looking for a quick grasp on the consensus position in climate issues. How does one protect these newcomers?

Cook’s solution: the inconvenient comments go flying out the window.

One clearly sees that the mission of the website underwent a change ~end of 2009. In the earlier years, Cook seems welcoming to comments. His interest it seemed was to point out findings from scientific papers, that he thought contradicted climate skeptics’ claims. By November 2009, Cook had arrived at a dramatically different viewpoint. He saw ‘global warming skepticism’ as a sort of a mental illness or a psychiatric condition, with the afflicted being beyond any hope. Psychologic diagnoses permeates his thinking from that point on.

Cook voices his thoughts on the shift in a post in November 2009. It is hard to fathom, why, anybody who ran a website and worked hard at attracting and nurturing an online community, would commit the most fundamental of indiscretions with his readers’ comments – deleting and moulding them at his own whim.

As seen in his response above, Cook viewed the comments section of his website topics as a resource, to be used for ‘educating’ the public.

From there on, editing, deleting and moulding the historical record probably did not seem any wrong to Cook.

Tagged

86 thoughts on “Skepticalscience – Rewriting History

  1. StalinScience it is, then…

    • Owen Morgan says:

      Stalin Science is exactly right. Although it wasn’t Lysenko that came to mind, as I read this terrific piece, but a book called “The Commissar Vanishes”, in which the author, David King, showed how Stalin’s associates were airbrushed, or often inked, out of official photographs. It was crudely done, but the true-believers could be relied upon not to notice.

  2. kim:) says:

    [ " John Wight clearly understood his reader’s critique because he took its message to heart.' ]

    Should be “Cook” ?

  3. Adam Gallon says:

    StalinScience, how very apt!
    Just like the way photographs were doctored to remove faces of “Non-people”.
    Everytime someone quotes SS (Think Zed over at Bishop Hill’s & the like!), they can be pointed to this page to show how trustworthy SS really is!

  4. JSmith says:

    Firstly, did you ask John Cook for a response before posting this ?

    Secondly, you do yourself no favours by believing that Poptech or his little list (especially anything produced by the politically biased E&E) have any connection with any form of refutation, especially “in part or in whole, [of] the Mannian hockey-stick”.
    In fact, what is a “Mannian hockey-stick” ? Is it any different from all the other ‘hockey-sticks’ that have been produced, e.g. this recent one ?

    • This post demands a response from the skepticalscience website. One hopes they will oblige.

      What do you think about the rewriting?

    • Carrick says:

      JSmith: “Secondly, you do yourself no favours by believing that Poptech or his little list (especially anything produced by the politically biased E&E) have any connection with any form of refutation, especially “in part or in whole, [of] the Mannian hockey-stick”.

      Why does it matter? Why delete his comment or references? Why is that better than discussing other papers on the topic that present a different view.

      Is posting references a form of ad hominem on Skeptical Science now?

    • Poptech says:

      Poor Jsmith, desperately trying to discredit peer-reviewed papers. Energy & Environment is not politically biased. Unless of course you mean by the editor who happens to be a Social-Democrat. So using your logic E&E would be biased in favor of your political opinions. I love the irony.

      Why is SKS so afraid to have anyone read peer-reviewed papers they do not approve of?

      The Mannian hockey-stick was the center piece of the 2001 IPCC report and relied on controversial tree-ring data and methods. The recent one has not been audited yet so you will have to wait to find out what is wrong with it.

    • Viktor says:

      Response or permission?

      greetings comrade.

  5. JSmith says:

    No-one (or blog) has to respond to “demands”, especially those based on supposition. It would have been so much better (and less confrontational – unless that is what you are after ?) if you had informed John Cook of your intentions – perhaps you might have had some answers to your questions.
    I will wait to hear from Skeptical Science before making any decision. After all, any true sceptic would look at all sides before coming to any form of reasoned judgement, surely ?

    • John Archer says:

      After all, any true sceptic would look at all sides before coming to any form of reasoned judgement, surely ?” – JSmith

      HA!

      But maybe I’m jumping the gun here.

      So, tell me then, smudger, when you wrote that, did you look “at all sides before coming to any form of reasoned judgement” before deciding it was necessary to include the word ‘true‘?

      If so, it would be nice if you would give us your reasoning – especially as to precisely how it’s omission would have changed the intent of what you wrote?

      Meanwhile, and in the absence of any response from you, my “reasoned judgement” inclines me to the view that your statement above embodies a first-class irony – indeed, one to savour.

      • John Archer says:

        I seem to have mislaid one of my apostrophes. Ah! There it is, above. Shub, could you post it back to me please – I’m running short of them and need to conserve my stock until new supplies arrive.

        Thanks.

    • Carrick says:

      JSmith: “No-one (or blog) has to respond to “demands”, especially those based on supposition”

      Similarly nobody is required to ask John Cook for his opinion on why he is intellectually dishonest.

      “After all, any true sceptic would look at all sides before coming to any form of reasoned judgement, surely ?”

      Since when is that a requirement for a “skeptic”? You form a judgement when you have enough information to form a judgement, not once you’re heard from every clown in the parade.

      It doesn’t require, in this case, John Cook prevaricating to us about why he can’t engage with skeptics in an intellectually honest fashion to form an opinion on the fact that he is unable to do so.

  6. Thanks JSmith for the good laugh. I wonder what Josef would have replied too.

  7. I will wait to hear from Skeptical Science before making any decision.

    I think that is a good idea.

  8. Fred Bloggs says:

    Well done Shub.

    Also, why should you ask Cook before publishing this. He can come here to explain himself or do so on his own blog.

    However when he tried to explain his actions last time on the BH blog, he was plainly being economical with the truth. So I am not sure I would believe him anyway.

  9. kim:) says:

    JSmith

    October 11, 2011 at 10:51

    [ No-one (or blog) has to respond to “demands”, especially those based on supposition. It would have been so much better (and less confrontational – unless that is what you are after ?) if you had informed John Cook of your intentions – perhaps you might have had some answers to your questions. ]

    Hmmmm…read dana1981 and Mr Cooks replies. In blogs such as WUWT ………………… OR follow the links here?

  10. Ibrahim says:

    My first search on the waybackmachine SkS:

    The comments by Poptech disappeared

    http://web.archive.org/web/20081219171242/http://www.skepticalscience.com/climate-models.htm

    http://www.skepticalscience.com/argument.php?p=8&t=398&&a=15

    SkS didn’t delete the reactions on Poptech :-)

  11. Ibrahim says:

    Poptech’s comment was #21

  12. hengistmcstone says:

    Or to cut a long story short the editor of Skeptical Science has been caught editing Skeptical Science.

    • Carrick says:

      There are rules for appropriate behavior for editors too. Simply because you are editing by redacting materials, doesn’t make the act ethical.

      What Cook has been doing does not follow standard practices for appropriate conduct of an editor, and nobody is fooled that it is, merely because it can falls under the rubric “editing”.

      • hengistmcstone says:

        Sorry Carrick I didn’t know that. Could you point me to the Rules for Editors on the Internet please.

        • the editor says:

          hengistmcstone said:

          “Could you point me to the Rules for Editors on the Internet please”

          http://www.bbc.co.uk/editorialguidelines/page/guidelines-accuracy-managing-content-online/

          from

          http://www.bbc.co.uk/editorialguidelines/guidelines/

          hengistmcstone said:

          “Thanks for that. It’s a good clear example”, “Sorry”. “Goodnight.”

          • Carrick says:

            Thanks, editor. I’ve bookmarked both of those links.

            As a US researcher, I’m required to take courses on ethical conduct of research. The Australian John Cook could use a few of those course too, if he wants to continue to represent scientists to the lay population. (Of course that’s not the purpose of his website, unfortunately, at the moment, it is nothing more than a propagandist site for AGW True Believers.)

        • Carrick says:

          The language I used was “standard practices for appropriate conduct” not “Rule for Editors”, this mischaracterization is just more intellectual dishonesty on your part. That does nothing to further your cause.

          Since we’re at it, don’t you start with addressing why you think there is a different (or even nonexistent) standard of ethical conduct an editor on a scientific blog than any other publication outlet?

          I think if I were John, I’d ask you to “please quit trying to help.”

  13. Mark S says:

    Skepticalscience.com update each ‘What the Science Says’ page in response to new papers and visitor feedback. Unlike a static webpage (e.g. clavius.org) the comments represent a minor problem because past discussions (some of them heated) look out of place and redundant over a period of time. I bet John Cook is angry with himself because now the focus is on sloppy moderation and not the updated ‘arguments’ themselves, which appear solid. My understanding is that SkS will implement a Wiki so visitors can keep track of future changes.

    • Carrick says:

      Wikipedia is a perfect counter point. With Wikipedia, you can see old versions of the article and comments on the older version, as well as the new.

      This doesn’t count as “sloppy moderation”, it’s more much more akin to pure “hackery”.

  14. hengist – you can’t prevent me for painting over the cracks in my house. At the same time I can’t prevent you from telling people how dishonest that is.

  15. PhilJourdan says:

    Excellent detective work. To the casual searcher, the purity of AGW will remain intact. It is through your efforts that the deception is exposed. I doubt Tim Cook will offer any explanation. To do such a hack job means he is not looking to hide it from the thorough researcher, just the willing faithful followers.

  16. David S says:

    Nearly right for once, Hengist. You just missed the word “retrospectively”. Mr Cook is entitled to edit, or moderate, his website although as with RealClimate, readers are entitled to form their own views on whether the moderation policy is fair or reasonable. However when he starts tinkering with and rearranging the comments to create a different narrative misrepresenting the commenters, then that is prima facie evidence of dishonesty.
    Neither you nor he might care whether the website has any integrity, but policymakers must and the general public should.

  17. [...] here: Skepticalscience – Rewriting History Rate this: Share this:StumbleUponDiggRedditTwitterFacebookEmailLike this:LikeBe the first [...]

  18. JSmith says:

    “However when he starts tinkering with and rearranging the comments to create a different narrative misrepresenting the commenters, then that is prima facie evidence of dishonesty.”

    Come of it. That is prima facie evidence of you deciding that you ‘know’ what was done and why. Along with everyone else commenting here, you in fact do not know. But, like some others, you are projecting what you believe you think you know – or what you want to be the case.

    To the author of this blog : Do you agree with the accusations of “hack job”, “deception”, “hackery”, “economical with the truth”, “intellectually dishonest” and “StalinScience” – all made without any substantiation whatsoever.

    • Carrick says:

      There was substantiation, plenty of it. So you’re just going to lie and assume nobody notices?

      That’s both a pathetic and unworkable strategy on your part.

      Nobody is being fooled by your prevarications and ham-handed slight of hands.

    • To the author of this blog : Do you agree with the accusations of “hack job”, “deception”, “hackery”, “economical with the truth”, “intellectually dishonest” and “StalinScience” – all made without any substantiation whatsoever.

      I don’t know what it is, but I can tell you, it looks like all of the above.

      And there is lots of ‘substantiation’. How many more examples do you want to consider?

    • Poptech says:

      All of those accusations are accurate. I will testify to them. SKS has become one of the most intellectually dishonest climate sites on the Internet as they censor all dissenting opinion from anyone that can hold an argument but leave all the responses by their believers intact.

    • timg56 says:

      JSmith,

      To even a casual reader, seeing edits and deletions that occur well past the original date of posting – posts that clearly do not meet the editors own stated definition as to cause – automatically raises a red flag. Granted, the “hack job”, and StalinScience” accusations do little to advance the discussion, but consideration of intellectual diishonesty and possibly deception are valid to question and explore. At this point the burden shifts to the editor to provide a reasonable explaination.

  19. I keep forgetting…some people ARE born yesterday. My bad.

  20. O2BNAZ says:

    Hey lets look on the bright side Shub; you’ve stumbled upon a new scientific methodology “Mannian”. Think of all the applications. Historians can say “in the late 1990’s humans abandoned the painstaking Einsteinian for the relative simplistic “Mannian” methodology.” Philosophers will now have three choices; inductive, deductive and “Mannian” reasoning. We will look back on this point in history and discuss how the “Mannian” effect can be accounted for in scientific outcomes. And my favorite will be the “Mannian” constant; the amount that must be subtracted from all warming claims.

  21. O2BNAZ says:

    One more… truncating comments and adding new comments at the end, to hide the discourse will be referred to as the “Mannian prerogative”.

  22. Poptech says:

    Nice article. I tried early on to comment there but the censorship made it impossible so it was pointless to continue. I am surprise they are going back and censoring four year old posts. They really cannot have anyone reading something they do not approve of it.

  23. Viva la Resistance says:

    Can’t be long before the SS Greenshirts start blocking the Wayback Machine.

  24. Die Zauberflotist says:

    Saving the planet is going to be a lot tougher with Woodward/Bernstein tattletales like you gumming up the works.

  25. JSmith says:

    To the blog author : Accusations of lying against those who comment on here (again, without substantiation) are a sad indictment of the quality of ‘debate’ allowed on your site, but such is your prerogative.

    • What are you talking about?

      You haven’t answered my question yet.

    • Carrick says:

      Speaking of “sad indictments, it’s amusing that JSmith should bring this up, since John Cook’s site allows ad hominem attacks in blog posts.

      Of course there is a plethora of substantiation of John Cook’s unethicalness and intellectual bankruptcy in this and other posts, and unfortunately all you are doing is providing accompanying proof of the similar lack of unethical and intellectual dishonesty shared by his readers.

      Rule of plumbers: When you find yourself in a hole, quit digging.

  26. Mike Davis says:

    All I need is to have Cook from the SS site show up and another tub of popcorn for my afternoon entertainment.
    My impression of the proper way of updating information is to start another thread and refer to the older one without deletion. To keep the site clean just delete older posts and replace them with complete new ones, of course that would appear as if one did not know what they were pushing to begin with and they were leafing their theories, Blowing whichever the prevailing winds blew, fair or foul.
    The practice being displayed is selective history which follows the IPCC plan of action, create the history that supports the cause.

  27. John Archer says:

    Coming from you, smudger, that’s choice.

    Tell us, just what does your use of the word ‘true‘ signify in your post above at 10:51 today other than to suggest that Shub is a false sceptic, a distorter of truth in some way – in plain language, a liar?

    What a precious, blatant hypocrite you are.

    On that theme, I notice you haven’t answered my earlier question. Was it too difficult for you?

    Your postings here have the hallmarks of being written by an obtuse, posturing, closed-minded zealot – a right cnut, in fact – and in my “reasoned judgement”, you aren’t faking those hallmarks – they are the real McCoy.

  28. JSmith must be Cook’s cousin, he’s told “you’re wrong” but understands “you’re lying”. A sad indictment yes, but of somebody’s relational skills.

    Likewise for hengist still clinging to an argument blown to smithereens several times already. Has he got a blog? His readers should be warned :)

    • hengistmcstone says:

      Im not clinging to any argument . Ive asked to see these rules for editors on the internet, referenced above. Im still waiting. Yes i do have a blog . http://muchachoverde.blogspot.com/

      • timg56 says:

        How about using the editor’s (Cook) own stated rule?

        Would you argue that the deletions documented above meet Cook’s own rule and therefore logically deserve to be deleted?

        About the only category they could possibly fit under is ideological. But if that is the case, it sure looks like anyone disagreeing, expressing doubt or asking uncomfortable questions qualifies as an ideologue.

        • hengistmcstone says:

          Which stated rule are you referring to ? The one that goes “Instead, do what the troll hates most — simply remove the comment” ? He’s the editor he edits. Its a work in progress, he has to update the content , and of course he’s entitled to improve the way he’s saying things. Above all he has to keep coherence so yes comments will be edited and eventually lost as the host articles get revised or replaced. The purpose of SkS (as I see it) is a reference portal to the consensus science. It is not, sadly, the definitive site where the warmists and advocates positioned as skeptic meet and do battle, no such site exists . And he is removing comments from both sides of the debate so the implication made here that something underhand is going on isimply false.

          • omnologos says:

            Your comment makes no sense, given that people have been actively made to look stupid exactly by the (never-stated) comment manipulation policy. This goes far beyond deletion, and cannot be used with the excuse of “coherence” (since comments are rewritten, rather than just deleted).

            Just like Ioseb Besarionis dze Jughashvili, not just interested in removing people from history by preventing some photographs from circulating, rather in rewriting history by manipulating the same photographs.

          • Carrick says:

            What rubbish. There are intellectual and ethical standards that any person posting material to a website need to adhere to, if they want to retain more than 0% credibility. John Cook currentlhy has about 0% and, he’s vying for the negative credibility award at the moment.

            But you go ahead and support his behavior, if you think it advances the cause.

          • timg56 says:

            I starting to think that’s your real picture. Everyone is entitled to improve how they say or communicate things. No one is arguing Cook can’t. But based on your reasoning, it would be perfectly acceptable for me to go back to a paper or exam and make changes and deletions (such as wrong answers) and then expect it to stand as if original. I believe that is called cheating.

            With folks like you trying to defend the actions of Cook, he doesn’t need any detractors.

          • Hengist

            You say:

            Above all he has to keep coherence …

            That is what I am saying too.

            I hope you realise why what Cook has done here, is not a bright thing.

      • omnologos says:

        hengist still has no idea about painting over the cracks. Good to know.

  29. the editor says:

    hengistmcstone said:

    “To cut a long story short the editor of Skeptical Science has been caught”

  30. hengistmcstone says:

    @the editor
    That’s a clear example of mendacious misquoting , it is not what I said above at all , you have truncated my sentence to make it appear to mean what you want it to mean, pretty much the opposite of what I am saying. Thanks for that. It’s a good clear example of how advocates positioned as skeptic are dishonestly misrepresenting their opponents, and is a perfect example of why this blog is unreliable. Goodnight.

    • omnologos says:

      hengist- let me explain the joke.

      Cook’s (never-stated) comment modification policy is a clear example of mendacious misquoting , it is not what people said before at all , he has truncated their sentence to make it appear to mean what Cook wants it to mean, pretty much the opposite of what they were saying. Thank Cook for that. It’s a good clear example of how advocates positioned as bloggers at “Skeptical Science” are dishonestly misrepresenting their opponents, and is a perfect example of why their blog is unreliable. Goodnight.

    • papertiger says:

      Show me the chapter and verse in the rules for editors on the internet against mendacious misquoting, or truncating sentences to make it appear that Hengis is smarter and more honest than in real life.

  31. David S says:

    Nice one editor! Hengist perhaps you should change your moniker to “flightpath” as that one went right over your head!

  32. 40 shades of green says:

    Speaking as someone who got deleted, I was a big fan of Sks until about 2 years ago. I used to wonder was he a secret sceptic.

    It almost seemed like he was a tennis player throwing up easy lobs for an opponent to smash. he would write an article that was naive at best and the skeptics would pile in with links to science and arguments showing how silly his points were.

    I think I learned most of my scepticism there thanks to the commenters.

    I guess he is tired if having his lobs smashed into the corner.

  33. hro001 says:

    Sounds like a Climate Crisis at Cook’s Corner ;-) Too bad it wasn’t one of conscience, eh?!

    You’d think by now they would have learned that eventually such blatant use of Santerian and Mannian tactics (which more closely resemble the “scholarship” of the likes of David “change a word here, add a word there” Irving than anything approximating intellectual honesty) will be discovered and brought to light.

    But no doubt they’ll contnue on their way, wailing and whining (to any who will listen) about their “inability to communicate the science” ‘cuz of the evil ways of those who dare to question the tenets of the climate bible.

    Very well done, Shub.

  34. gallopingcamel says:

    In February of this year I made this direct appeal to John Cook via email:

    “While the general tone of Skeptical Science has been well maintained,
    count me among those who have noticed a deterioration in the
    “Moderating”. This activity is getting increasingly heavy handed to the
    point that folks like “Berenyi Peter” or “gallopingcamel” comment less
    and less frequently.”

    He replied that the new moderation policies would be maintained. This meant that “Daniel Bailey”, “dikranmarsupial”, “dana1981″ et al. would continue suppressing opposing views.

    Voila! Another echo chamber.

  35. lateintheday says:

    Out of interest, I left this note on Paul Hudson’s blog about a week ago . . .

    53. At 21:34 4th Oct 2011, lateintheday wrote:
    “Paul B, thanks for that – I’ll take a closer look.
    I’ve tried to find a good debate around Pinker et al 2005 but have yet to find one. My first visit was to SkS thinking that firstly they would explain the science, secondly they would present the findings in a pro AGW light so that inevitably, I’d find some alternative viewpoints/debate in the comments section. By reading both sides, I get a better overview.
    Their coverage is disappointing on this however. It reads as though the author (Cook?) started off with all good intent and then ran out of time and simply threw in a GISS graph to finish. Oddly, despite this being a 2010 post, there were no comments – none at all.”

    The article at SkS was called “Is global brightening causing global warming”

  36. [...] a warmist means you can never be wrong, and if pesky blog comments prove you wrong, just rewrite history. Ignorance is Power, [...]

  37. So let me get this straight: you have written an article decrying a blogger for deleting abusive posts. You then say that this is ignoring science and yet the science supposedly ignored was never then submitted to the authors for addition to the articles in question. In additition you are insulting him and his site, yet offering nothing but ad homenium accusations as evidence. The papers that are mentioned are from Energy and Environment and the like, a journal widely known for its lack of proper peer review.

    This just sets my skeptic alarm blaring at what you are trying to do here. You have just made me a supporter of Cook and his site with this cheap hatchet job.

    • Poptech says:

      Tyson, Energy & Environment is properly peer-reviewed,

      Energy & Environment is a peer-reviewed interdisciplinary scholarly journal (ISSN: 0958-305X)
      - Indexed in Compendex, EBSCO, Environment Abstracts, Google Scholar, JournalSeek, Scopus and Thompson Reuters (ISI)
      - Found at 173 libraries and universities worldwide in print and electronic form. These include; Cambridge University, Cornell University, British Library, Dartmouth College, Library of Congress, National Library of Australia, Ohio University, Pennsylvania State University, Rutgers University, University of California, University of Delaware, University of Oxford, University of Virginia, and MIT.
      - Thompson Reuters Social Sciences Citation Index (ISI) lists Energy & Environment as a peer-reviewed scholarly journal
      http://science.thomsonreuters.com/cgi-bin/jrnlst/jlresults.cgi?PC=MASTER&ISSN=0958-305X
      - EBSCO lists Energy & Environment as a peer-reviewed scholarly journal
      - Scopus lists Energy & Environment as a peer-reviewed scholarly journal
      - Elsevier lists Energy & Environment as a scholarly peer-reviewed journal on their internal master list. (Source: Email Correspondence)
      - The IPCC cites Energy & Environment multiple times
      http://tinyurl.com/7une5vz
      - “E&E, by the way, is peer reviewed” – Tom Wigley, Fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science (AAAS)
      - “I have published a few papers in E&E. All were peer-reviewed as usual. I have reviewed a few more for the journal.” – Richard Tol Ph.D. Professor of the Economics of Climate Change, Vrije Universiteit, Netherlands
      - “All Multi-Sciences primary journals are fully refereed” – Multi-Science Publishing
      - “Regular issues include submitted and invited papers that are rigorously peer reviewed” – E&E Mission Statement

      • It isn’t listed on ISI Web of Knowledge, the list of peer reviewed journals. It doesn’t appear to have any form of impact factor. The chief editor has admitted to publishing papers without peer review because they suit her political agenda.

        Quote on why E&E is not listed on ISI:
        A given paper in E&E may have been peer reviewed (but unlikely). If it was, the review process might have been up to the normal standards for science (but unlikely). Hence E&E’s exclusion from the ISI Journal Master list, and why many (including Scopus) do not consider E&E a peer reviewed journal at all. Further, even the editor states that it is not a science journal and that it is politically motivated/influenced.

        Instead it is listed on ISI as a social journal, which is widely held as “opinion” articles as they don’t have to contain quantitative data. SCOPUS lists E&E as a trade journal, as in seldom referred with few or no references. Most conference papers have more peer review standards than these listings would suggest.

        • Poptech says:

          Tyson, did you not read what I just posted? It is listed in the ISI,

          - Thompson Reuters Social Sciences Citation Index (ISI) lists Energy & Environment as a peer-reviewed scholarly journal
          http://science.thomsonreuters.com/cgi-bin/jrnlst/jlresults.cgi?PC=MASTER&ISSN=0958-305X

          The ISI Web of Science is simply a for profit database by the multi-billion dollar Thompson Reuters corporation. It one of many academic databases such as EBSCO’s Academic Search and Elsevier’s Scopus.

          Impact Factor is a subjective determination of popularity not scientific validity.

          It is a lie that the Editor has ever admitted to publishing papers without peer-review to suit her political agenda. You are completely distorting different comments and drawing erroneous conclusions.

          Scopus does not list E&E as a trade journal anymore. That was an incorrect listing that has since been fixed. E&E never matched their criteria for being a trade journal.

          All of your smears about E&E are addressed here,

          http://www.populartechnology.net/2010/04/correcting-misinformation-about-journal.html

    • Poptech says:

      Tyson, please explain why my hundreds of comments were censored off of the Skeptical Science website?

  38. Tyson – sad to hear you couldn’t attend those reading comprehension classes. Try a Community College, will ya.

  39. Tyson, you say:
    “So let me get this straight: you have written an article decrying a blogger for deleting abusive posts…”

    You are trying to get this straight, but you haven’t.

    I do not ‘decry’ what John Cook does on his blog. Cook did not ‘delete’ abusive posts, he did something else.

  40. Tyson
    You say: “You have just made me a supporter of Cook and his site with this cheap hatchet job.”

    I looked at your Twitter list. You have a message today congratulating Cook for the graphical design in his book. I caught a handful of other messages you put out earlier as well. Seems to me as though you were already a supporter of Cook and his site.

  41. [...] to debunk them), has consistently had a problem representing what people say (see here, here and here). An earlier version of his Antarctic ice post carried a slightly different passage. Even then, [...]

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